frameworks / programming ?

[Sam111]

What is the hardest framework/programming api you have ever used.
Is it Struts , Spring , MFC , .NET ....etc

Which one and for which lanuage
As well was it for web based programming or system/application/firmware based programming?

Obviously in your opinon

[Mikemk]

What is the hardest framework/programming api you have ever used.

I assume you mean a standard api, and that "Intel bytecode" doesn't count.

Which one and for which lanuage

SIC
DirectX
C#, which may have been part of the problem.

As well was it for web based programming or system/application/firmware based programming?

application, specifically games

[Sam111]

anybody else with there opinon on what api/framework is the hardest to master?

[dozniak]

anybody else with there opinon on what api/framework is the hardest to master?

GTK is pretty bad in my opinion, mostly because of horrifying manual memory management.

MFC is a a very clunky piece of framework, never again.

[Opcode]

OWL

[bluemoon]

What is the hardest framework/programming api you have ever used.

There are no hardest API IMO, if there is enough document and infinite time to read them.
However, the most disgusting one, if you care, is MFC.
They just lock the components up with zero or negative flexibility, if you want customize stuff you're doing hacks.

[brain]

I don't know about hard, but the framework I hate the most right now is cakephp. We had to maintain a web based system written in it - I am still not sure why the people who wrote the framework decide to send a whole complete dataset which might be tens of thousands of rows to the browser, only for the browser to then filter and page the resultset using.... Javascript. Yeah go figure. Real "SMRT" guys. Then, there's the fact that it buffers the entire page before sending so not only does a large table kill your browser it can also kill your server. Nice huh?

[OSwhatever]

I must join the gang here any also say that MFC was a really annoying framework.

[Mikemk]

I don't know about hard, but the framework I hate the most right now is cakephp. We had to maintain a web based system written in it - I am still not sure why the people who wrote the framework decide to send a whole complete dataset which might be tens of thousands of rows to the browser, only for the browser to then filter and page the resultset using.... Javascript. Yeah go figure. Real "SMRT" guys. Then, there's the fact that it buffers the entire page before sending so not only does a large table kill your browser it can also kill your server. Nice huh?

<sarcasm>That's an excellent idea</sarcasm>

[bubach]

haven't touched .net in years but I recently had to do some work in .NET MVC. which was.. terrible. maybe that's because it came with... typescript, jquery, kendo ui, razor, grids with data-binding and well.. a never ending stream of frameworks on top of the frameworks. it seems like the typical .net programmer prefers not to do any coding at all - which is fine as long as you don't stray at all from the general frameworks way of doing things. if you try and change anything - and i do mean anything - then you're better off doing it by yourself from the ground up. or maybe fix it by finding another framework to bind together functionality in the ones you already got.

it was a freaking nightmare. glad to be back with PHP.

[FallenAvatar]

I just feel the need to step in an defend .Net here. I am not a diehard proponent of .Net, but over PHP? Hell yes I am. I tend to rank programming languages on the debugging aspect (because everything else tends to be personal preference) and I find PHP to be severely lacking.

Most languages include, atleast a "default" toolchain and/or IDE. dotNet provides both of these free (the compiler is flat out free but requires windows, VS Express is free but requires windows as well. Mono and their IDE solves the Windows requirement.) while PHP provides neither. M$ offers a sample implementation + debugging environment, and PHP offers nothing above their spec.

In my mind, i can use Notepad++ to write PHP code, and then upload it and hope the server tells me what I did wrong. For .Net I can not upload ANY code without compile time checking all of it.

Now, .Net MVC is not the best, but neither is Cake, Zend, or anything PHP. MVC is a stupid buzzword that means N-tier development, but worse.

- Monk

[Mikemk]

When programming for windows i do prefer .net over unmanaged.

That said, there are many things that i'd like to do that are difficult or impossible in .net and relatively easy in other languages (Try showing a live feed of a window hidden behind another window and then minimized without making the user think the computer is suffering from a seizure )