Smallest possible bitmap font

All off topic discussions go here. Everything from the funny thing your cat did to your favorite tv shows. Non-programming computer questions are ok too.
User avatar
NickJohnson
Member
Member
Posts: 1249
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:11 pm
Location: Sunnyvale, California

Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by NickJohnson »

I personally like small fonts. They take up less space, you can make higher resolution ASCII art with them, and you can see more of your code at a time. I also have relatively little screen space on my laptop, which makes them useful for me. I was wondering what the absolutely smallest two color font size is that can display all ASCII printable characters is.

I know you can do it pretty easily with 8 by 8, and I've seen 5x7 on some consoles. I've even seen 3x5 on the TI-84 used sometimes, but I'm not sure it can handle all lower case characters. It would be cool if it was 3x5, because then you could use a 15/16 bit integer to define any possible character, and have some nice display capabilities for a text console.

Any world records for smallest font?
User avatar
Combuster
Member
Member
Posts: 9301
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:45 am
Libera.chat IRC: [com]buster
Location: On the balcony, where I can actually keep 1½m distance
Contact:

Re: Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by Combuster »

NickJohnson wrote:Any world records for smallest font?
How about 1mm letters, etched into paper with a sharp point :mrgreen:

IMO 3x5 won't work, you'd get no spacing between characters. 5x7 would probably be sufficient to get all characters readable. I'd use 5x8 for small fonts (4x7 usable pixels), so that f.x. the 8 would have the right aspect ratios. In the end, it's all a tradeoff. For real efficiency, try braille :)

$.02
"Certainly avoid yourself. He is a newbie and might not realize it. You'll hate his code deeply a few years down the road." - Sortie
[ My OS ] [ VDisk/SFS ]
User avatar
Troy Martin
Member
Member
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:40 pm
Location: Langley, Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Re: Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by Troy Martin »

A single pixel? :lol:
Image
Image
Solar wrote:It keeps stunning me how friendly we - as a community - are towards people who start programming "their first OS" who don't even have a solid understanding of pointers, their compiler, or how a OS is structured.
I wish I could add more tex
User avatar
NickJohnson
Member
Member
Posts: 1249
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:11 pm
Location: Sunnyvale, California

Re: Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by NickJohnson »

Well, I was sort of not counting the one pixel spacing around everything. By 3x5 I really mean 4x6.
User avatar
Troy Martin
Member
Member
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:40 pm
Location: Langley, Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Re: Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by Troy Martin »

You don't necessarily _need_ space....
Image
Image
Solar wrote:It keeps stunning me how friendly we - as a community - are towards people who start programming "their first OS" who don't even have a solid understanding of pointers, their compiler, or how a OS is structured.
I wish I could add more tex
User avatar
NickJohnson
Member
Member
Posts: 1249
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:11 pm
Location: Sunnyvale, California

Re: Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by NickJohnson »

Hmm... good point. :D

Although, it would also be very interesting to have a whole font that would be essentially visual braille. I wonder if that would be readable with some getting used to. I mean, the whole design concept of braille is to be able to easily read very simple patterns of dots, so it may actually work well.
User avatar
NickJohnson
Member
Member
Posts: 1249
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:11 pm
Location: Sunnyvale, California

Re: Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by NickJohnson »

I looked it up, and there actually is an ASCII Braille specification, but it only has 64 configurations. If you added an extra dot or dots, you could even have it represent all printable and unprintable ASCII characters. Maybe it would be a good way of reading both normal text and binary files, as an alternative to hexadecimal. Think if you could actually *read* object files. Plus you could look very cool doing it 8)
User avatar
Firestryke31
Member
Member
Posts: 550
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:07 pm
Location: Throw a dart at central Texas
Contact:

Re: Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by Firestryke31 »

I had come up with an almost-readable 4x5 (3x4 by your convention) font at one point, but I think I accidentally deleted the bitmap. Also, it was only displayable standard ASCII. It's not that hard to remake though, seeing as there are only about 3 or 4 thousand possible combinations and only a select few of those could be considered letters or numbers. I'll see if I can do it again...

Edit: Here, this is what I came up with. Good luck reading it...
Image

If anyone wants to improve it be my guest.
Owner of Fawkes Software.
Wierd Al wrote: You think your Commodore 64 is really neato,
What kind of chip you got in there, a Dorito?
User avatar
NickJohnson
Member
Member
Posts: 1249
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:11 pm
Location: Sunnyvale, California

Re: Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by NickJohnson »

That's crazy small! I did my best to emulate the TI-84 small sized font, 3x5 or 4x6, whatever you want to call it, which is attached. I can't actually find my calculator right now, so it's probably not exactly the same. Some characters are tricky at that size ($ and # etc.), but the upper case letters and numbers look really nice. I'm guessing nobody's going to try and code Perl in this :wink:.

Edit: made some modifications to the more crappy characters. The tilde is now more of a logical not symbol, because that's really what it's for (in C). Similar with the asterisk.
Attachments
Edited
Edited
smallfont.png (710 Bytes) Viewed 7702 times
3x5 ASCII font partially ripped from the TI-84
3x5 ASCII font partially ripped from the TI-84
smallfont.png (714 Bytes) Viewed 7707 times
User avatar
Troy Martin
Member
Member
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:40 pm
Location: Langley, Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Re: Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by Troy Martin »

Here's my take on Firestryke's font:
font.png
font.png (857 Bytes) Viewed 7705 times
Image
Image
Solar wrote:It keeps stunning me how friendly we - as a community - are towards people who start programming "their first OS" who don't even have a solid understanding of pointers, their compiler, or how a OS is structured.
I wish I could add more tex
User avatar
Masterkiller
Member
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 6:20 pm

Re: Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by Masterkiller »

Here is my modification of small font. Actually I made it especially for numbers. I just added the other symbols. I am a little lazy at the moment so follow the characters from my keyboard (qwerty standard), not ASCII.

P.S. All Chars are 3x5
Attachments
smallfnt.png
smallfnt.png (616 Bytes) Viewed 7623 times
ALCA OS: Project temporarity suspended!
Current state: real-mode kernel-FS reader...
Osbios
Member
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:00 pm

Re: Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by Osbios »

I did a 4x4 once in pascal for the mode 13h.
User avatar
Firestryke31
Member
Member
Posts: 550
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:07 pm
Location: Throw a dart at central Texas
Contact:

Re: Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by Firestryke31 »

Let's see it! And Troy, nice job getting everything into "4x5 safe" boxes (i.e. with the 1px spacing), I tried to do that but couldn't keep it as readable. Also, you messed up the '[' (out of place pixel at bottom should move left 1).
Owner of Fawkes Software.
Wierd Al wrote: You think your Commodore 64 is really neato,
What kind of chip you got in there, a Dorito?
User avatar
Troy Martin
Member
Member
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:40 pm
Location: Langley, Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Re: Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by Troy Martin »

Haha, never noticed that, thanks!
Image
Image
Solar wrote:It keeps stunning me how friendly we - as a community - are towards people who start programming "their first OS" who don't even have a solid understanding of pointers, their compiler, or how a OS is structured.
I wish I could add more tex
User avatar
NickJohnson
Member
Member
Posts: 1249
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:11 pm
Location: Sunnyvale, California

Re: Smallest possible bitmap font

Post by NickJohnson »

I made some modifications to Troy's modifications, mostly to make things look more even:
font.png
font.png (681 Bytes) Viewed 7480 times
It's kind of crazy to think that even on a [edit] 4x6 character (3x5 usable area, including bottom line), there are 32,768 different combinations of pixels. Maybe using some sort of genetic modification program (like the one in the GIMP flame fractal generator), and a few people, we could generate the absolute best possible font.
Post Reply