Childhood dreams

[CJKay]

<deleted>

[Coty]

My dream was to grow up.

You to?

Another one of my dreams was much bigger... Since I was 11 I wanted to have my own computer manufacturer and I also wanted to also make my own processors that would go into PDAs... still working on it

Before that I wanted to be a scientist, astronaut, and at one time I even wanted to own a dump truck... Why? I dunno, I've always been a weird child, I can't even figure out why I wanted one...

[bobman801]

I just remembered that I had a kind of PDA wristwatch thing when I was really young. I remember trying to draw it in paint on windows 95.

[DavidCooper]

When I was five, my childhood dream was to get rid of schools (or more specifically the imprisonment aspect of them). I haven't given up on that dream and am actively trying to bring it about. Another of my childhood dreams was to become a writer like Arthur Ransome, and I've been working on my writing skills too for a long time in an attempt to reach the standard required. I've written about a hundred pages of what will probably become a 1000 page, three volume story and it seems to be going well, but it's hard to find the time to get on with it, although that does mean that there's a lot of extra thinking time that's going into it, so it should result in a higher quality end product.

Don't be too quick to give up on your dreams (unless they're simply too ridiculous), but make sure you don't miss out on having a life along the way.

[Synon]

When I was younger there were loads of things I wanted to be. Most of them were fairly typical - police officer, fire fighter, soldier. I wanted to be a programmer since I was 12 or 13 which was when I first came across programming. I didn't starting learning to program (in C++, probably a bad first language, but whatever) until I was 14 (early 2009).

I think I have a few half-baked ideas that I could explore

As long as it's your ideas, and not your food, that is half-baked, good luck.

[Solar]

I didn't starting learning to program (in C++, probably a bad first language, but whatever)...

Funny enough, my plea for C++ as first programming language is my highest-ranking answer on stackoverflow.com.

(Actually, if I would ever give a class in programming, I'd probably start with a couple of hours of Brainfuck to teach about bytes, pointers, instructions, how a computer is basically dumb, how you have to break down a problem into bites the CPU can chew, why commenting your code is essential, and why you'd want a more complex language. Then I would use C++ to teach all the other concepts. )

...until I was 14 (early 2009).

There seems to be some kind of "race" being on about who has started programming the earliest, with some IMHO ridiculous claims being made. I think 14 is a very appropriate age to start this hobby; young enough to still learn much, old enough to actually grasp some of the concepts (why you need a clean code structure, non-procedural programming etc.) the first time around. I was about 11-12 when I started, and I consider myself a bordercase avoidant personality disorder. (Not sure if that was the reason or the result of my early love for computers.)

[qw]

I think I was about 14 too when I started programming, on a ZX Spectrum.

[Synon]

I didn't starting learning to program (in C++, probably a bad first language, but whatever)...

Funny enough, my plea for C++ as first programming language is my highest-ranking answer on stackoverflow.com.

That's interesting, maybe it wasn't such a mistake after all. I can understand where you were coming from with that post.

(Actually, if I would ever give a class in programming, I'd probably start with a couple of hours of Brainfuck to teach about bytes, pointers, instructions, how a computer is basically dumb, how you have to break down a problem into bites the CPU can chew, why commenting your code is essential, and why you'd want a more complex language. Then I would use C++ to teach all the other concepts. )

I think the Brainfuck is a good idea. Once they've learned it, I'd also have them write an interpreter for it so that they learn what is happening "behind the scenes". Edit: the interpreter doesn't have to be in Brainfuck(!) although I have seen some self-interpreters.

There seems to be some kind of "race" being on about who has started programming the earliest, with some IMHO ridiculous claims being made. I think 14 is a very appropriate age to start this hobby; young enough to still learn much, old enough to actually grasp some of the concepts (why you need a clean code structure, non-procedural programming etc.) the first time around. I was about 11-12 when I started, and I consider myself a bordercase avoidant personality disorder. (Not sure if that was the reason or the result of my early love for computers.)

Well, I'm quite introverted, but I've always been like that, since way before I started spending ridiculous amounts of time with computers. I deal with my introversion by forcing myself to act with confidence. When I start interacting with people, I push myself to be confident and eventually that frame of mind sticks.

I think 14 is a good age to start programming. If I had started now (16), I'd either have no time to program, or no time for school work, because my workload is huge this year. 12 is maybe a little young (I started with HTML at around 12) for serious programming, but then, I see people on these and other forums that started programming at about 9. Mostly it seems that they had a close relative who was a programmer and taught them BASIC or assembly language or somesuch.

[CWood]

I wanted to be a pilot. I consider it half achieved... I've flown before, and enjoyed it, and the pilot even said, that I was one of the best he'd ever taught (this was my first lesson, I've had about 3 so far, they're pretty much hit and miss when I have them...), but as for the actual license, I don't have £75,000 sitting in my back pocket (though hopefully, when I send Xero commercial, I might just... but I'm a long time away from that...) But I would REALLY like to go to OAA. I have the prospectus, have decided for a JAR/FCL ACPL license, however they cost WAY more than I can afford. I might go PPL, or even APPL, and just fly myself round Europe for a bit, with my family and friends, and, like programming, keep it as a hobby ^^

[suthers]

My childhood dream was to become a university professor in theoretical computer science or maths... Yah I know... I was a weird seven year old!!!
Well I'm still working on it!!!

As for the best starting language thing.

I have never met a better programmer than one that has followed this path:
Relatively formal foundation in mathematics -> Functional language that's strongly typed (e.g. Haskell, my personal favorite) -> Study of algorithmics and formal logic -> Functional language, preferable OOP (there I completly agree with C++) -> Some study of asm.

The relatively formal foundation in mathematics is important I think as it teaches one the correct methods of thinking and makes it easy to learn the syntax and workings of a functional language (haskell is again best syntax wise for crossing the math -> functional language boundary).
It is also important as the two disciplines are often strongly interlinked and it gives a good intelectual foundation for the study of some of the harder concepts and problems one will grappel with later.

Learning a strongly typed functional language will encourage good coding practices, no fudging around with type casts.
These types of language also make the coding less important, one tends to solidly plan and design an algorithm by breaking down the problem into the smaller sub problems that compose it, as opposed to jumping straight into the code with only a vague plan and fudge around until it works.
It is also important as the simplicity of the languages syntax allows one to really focus more on the problems being solved.
One really cannot compare:

Code: Select all

#include <vector>

....

vector<int> x;
for(int n = 0; n <= 10; n++) x.push_back(n);

...

with the simplicity and ease of comprehension of:

Code: Select all

...

[0..10]

...

These points as well fact that many of them also have a large set of integrated set of functions and integrate bignum support makes them the ideal play thing for a budding programmer with the correct foundation, as they remove the need for playing around with bignum, etc.. libraries and associated problems for a begginer.

Now don't get me wrong, strongly typed languages, although they have the advantage that one has to do something fairly radical to create something that will compile and then cause a segfaults, etc... They are not the ideal languages for real world development, although are far better for theoretical studies, so I love them!

Next, I think it's important to study algorithmics to learn about new paradigms as well as new ideas.
Many problems can be shown to be equivalent to other well studied problems, so a study of these main, well studied problems (i.e. tree searches, 10 knapsack optimisation problems, etc...) is extremely important.

A foundations in formal logic is important as:
a) It further encourages the right way of thinking and gives a good understanding of how the programming works, as well as showing one some interesting aspects of computation, such as it's limits (Gödel's incompleteness theorems).
b) It allows real debugging, not testing it with a set of potentially tricky as well as other more trivial inputs and checking if the correct answer is outputed, but writting the program as a functional statement, converting it into either a statement in lambda calculus or mathematical logic and finding a real proof that the program will always give the correct answer to the problem (given certain assumptions such as infinite memory and time) within certain constraints.

Next, for real world applications, a good OOP such as C++ should be learnt because of it's wide array of libraries, the fact that OOP is an ideal language for representing certain real world problems easily and intuitively and the fact that it is an imperative language, therefore makes it (mostly) ideal for real world applications.

Finally, one should learn asm, as it gives one a look at what is 'under the hood', which can be quite interesting! Also, it really helps with debugging and understanding certain errors. One could argue that the culmination of this would be to do at least a little OSdev!

I really think this would make for the best "real world" programmer!

Just my two cents, sorry, I know it's very long and also very off topic, but hey, I'm very tired, so I only realised after I'd wrote it, so I'm going to post anyway! (Sorry admins, I hope you won't have to move this!)

Kind regards,

Jules

P.S. I'd also advocate a study of basic complexity theory somewhere along the line, it can be very interesting and useful!

P.P.S Also, haven't been around for some time, so hey guys!

[Solar]

One really cannot compare:

Code: Select all

#include <vector>

....

vector<int> x;
for(int n = 0; n <= 10; n++) x.push_back(n);

...

with the simplicity and ease of comprehension of:

Code: Select all

...

[0..10]

...

With C++0x, that will be:

Code: Select all

#include <vector>

std::vector<int> x { 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 };

Just sayin'.

[Dario]

The relatively formal foundation in mathematics is important I think as it teaches one the correct methods of thinking and makes it easy to learn the syntax and workings of a functional language (haskell is again best syntax wise for crossing the math -> functional language boundary).
It is also important as the two disciplines are often strongly interlinked and it gives a good intelectual foundation for the study of some of the harder concepts and problems one will grappel with later.

First, that was nice post and in general, I agree with you. Concerning the mathematics...well, it depends on the job you're working on. What mathematics will provide you is an engineering culture which can help you in better understanding and modeling certain phenomenons, objects, etc...yeah, I know it's a generic answer but I got the sense of that as I was reading one book and realized that I had troubles reading it 3 years ago. But on the most of the jobs offered today , you won't benefit much from mathematics(calculus, mathematical analysis), mostly because it simply isn't required and was already done for you...

[b.zaar]

I wanted to be a firetruck...

so far i've just lit a lot of fires...

[Dario]

[But on the most of the jobs offered today , you won't benefit much from mathematics(calculus, mathematical analysis), mostly because it simply isn't required and was already done for you...

Most of the jobs offered today can be done by monkeys, and usually are. Aim higher. Working for NASA, avionics, nuclear plants, biological and genetical simulations, audio and video processing and many other areas require some good knowledge of mathematics and certainly doesn't hurt to know it well.

Agree about the monkeys. They are one little nasty suckers that loves to drink a lot of coffe(Java).
But the keyword here was "the most". So there are much more monkeys then there are scientists.